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This has become my third most hated debate that I have had regularly.  Behind the debate over abortion, and the debate over gay marriage rights.

In the end it is so pointless to me, which is why I do not like it so.  These freedoms already exist, or at least they should exist.  Which leads me to the conclusion, and the proposition, that if you specifically say Freedom from religion you get a religious police state.  That the attitude conveyed almost would make it where no one could worship, and believe what they could.

Or only a certain group had.  At least this is in my mind what has happened to every state that has specified this Freedom From religion, it leads to a dangerous path.  IMO at least, from what I have learned from history.

You have the freedom to believe what you want to believe, this does not matter if you are Atheist, Agnostic, Hindu, Jewish, Muslim, Christian.  As long as what you believe does not interfere with anyone’s rights.

In the end this is what it comes down to, you do not have the right to interfere with their religious practices.  But they do not have the right to do the same to you.

It seems like that in some of the conversations they had its like…how can we put up with this, they violate rights, force their beliefs on me, and then I cannot stop them.  This is not true, because in the end in this country we also have the right to property, if they do violate those rights,  they would be arrested, you do not have to listen to them, you do not have to give heed to them, you can just go on your merry way, if that is what you chose.

You do not have to take part in any religion that you do not want to.

And if they do infringe on your freedoms, well they can go to jail.  Because we are a nation of laws.

Also, this comes to issue, why? Why is everyone running around so scared of what everyone else believes, especially in regards to religion.  You believe in a God, I do not, or vice versa, it does not matter.  Let them pray on their own time, and there is time enough for you to get on with your own life.

I do not know what is so offensive about letting someone pray on their own time, at a school lunch, away from everyone else, just on their own time.

What is so offensive about the battlefield of ideas?  What bothers you about someones deeply held beliefs?

And why can you not allow them to have the same freedoms that you demand for yourself?

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7 Comments

  1. Hi again Col. Foley!
    It’s RileyPoole from Gateworld. 😀
    Nice blog you got here! I thought this post in particular was very interesting. I myself am a Christian, and I find it really sad that our government is taking away certain freedoms, like you said, the freedom to pray in school, or talk about God. I mean, what about the Freedom of Speech? 😦 Anyways, I can also see it from the other point of view too. I am not necessarily ‘bothered’ that some people do not believe how I do. I wish and hope that they would come to have faith in God like I do, but I also understand that it is their choice and I cannot force them to have faith. Nor would I want to! Because then it wouldn’t really be their faith, it would be me, imposing mine on them. And I wouldn’t want to do that. 🙂

    Anyways, sorry for this crazy long comment. 😀 I look forward to reading the rest of your blog!

    Adios,
    Riley

  2. Nice blog Foley…..I guess it is the fear that get people going and hating when it comes to Religious freedoms. The fear of the unknown and how to handle someone that starts talking about their religion or beliefs and you don’t know how to politely tell them no…I am not interested in hearing this now. Or it becomes like debating politics….each person has their own side and they will not budge….you have an extreme left…and an extreme right and they can’t even find any common ground with which to stand and so their debate ends up in frustration and despair. This is what happens when two people with differing religions or beliefs butt heads….and it tends to be even more explosive because usually these beliefs are so deeply seted within their whole value system that many times people cannot step aside for a moment to reason it out…and so emotions, anger, even hate results. We don’t have to look far back in history to see the wake of many a religious war that has been waged in many countries time and time again because of differing views and attitides which are simply not tolerated. So it is this fear that makes people sort of bottle up or cringe at this notion and many just tend to not say anything and/or try and shut down everyone from talking about it….it becomes the white elephant in the room that no one wants to recognize….because perhaps it is just too overwhelming to deal with.

  3. it’s simple…they should close their eyes or ears if I do something that offeneds them, and I will do the same.

    I think it is basically the fear of someone telling another person they are wrong. You either deal with it or walk away, not force them to hide their beleifs. I could go on and on but I won’t!

  4. I hardly ever pray in public these days, not because I am ashamed but because there are two large reasons. First, prayer is usually very private time for me and admittedly it takes me a while to say (or as the case may be, think about) the things I want to say to the Lord. It’s greatly reflective and I don’t want others to intrude on that.

    However, the other reason I don’t pray in public is the few times I have, the reaction has been…quite bad. The stares, the comments, the harassment…it’s really tiresome. But when the Spirit move me, and it’s the right occasion, yes I’ll do it in public.

    If certain religious groups claim the right to do it in public grounds, and they know who they are, why can’t I?

    The idea of freedom FROM religion is a de facto belief system. To force that upon me violates my freedom of religion. Quite frankly, I’m not going to let a vocal minority, 5% of the population, who believes that the other 95% of us are delusional dictate policy or practice to me, plain and simple.

  5. Its not about fear, it is about hate. They despise their hate for those who believe. They hate the fact that intelligent people can believe in nirvana, they hate that smart successful individuals believe in Jesus Christ. They hate that productive members of society pray towards Mecca five times a day. They hate that people devote their life to a God of their patriarchs and refuse to work every Saturday.

    They hate this with a passion, and they loath the fact that we as Americans live in the one true country where Religious freedom is a fact and not a dream. They hate that the founders believed and they downplay this. They hate the fact that this is a religious nation filled with just about every belief in the world. They don’t want to hear about God, about Nirvana, About reincarnation, about Jesus.

    They use fear of those who don’t hate in order to further their own agenda. I have met many agnostics who don’t care as long as they are left alone. I even met an atheist who said the pledge willingly despite its use of the “G” word. These people just want to be left alone and they can, and they are. However their fears of being pressured are used against them by those who hate.

    In the attempt to mimic Europe, this is what happens. We give into religious hatred that is flourishing their. I am willing to bet that American Muslims are among the most peaceful and tolerant out there. Pennsylvania and Maryland were the first Colonies, and first governments on the face of the earth to establish true religious freedom. Religious freedom is not European, it is part of the Uniquely American Dream. We should strive for the American dream that my parents worked so hard to find. This is the country they picked. And this is the country they wanted. No matter how proud I am of Mexico, I want an AMERICA not a Europe. So I repeat this nice quote the best portrays this unique Ideal

    “Give me liberty, or give me death”

    • I don’t know that I would go that far Aretood2 because really who are you talking about doing the hating here?? Because you mention just about everyone in your comments….the Atheists?? The Adnostics?? WHO?? I have a problem with this….in that it is grossly generalizing or lumping them all together saying if you don’t believe in the way I believe or you believe in something and I do not…I hate you. That is such a childish mindset. The problem with our country is it was basically founded on Christian principals. Most of the founding fathers were Christian men….so of course alot of our culture and value system is set up with this in mind and the majority of the American population is Christian. Now that is shifting and over time as that population dwindles and you have more and more religions popping up and I’m not just talking about muslim or established religions but I’m talking about the “religions of the day” God knows what…from new age to Scientology….and these various religious groups/cults what have you begin to fight for their rights and equal bidding….you can get a real problem on your hands because you lose your grounding of what your country was founded on. Then you have all the political correctness of….oh let’s not offend these people so we have to stop ALL religious practices to make it fair. Well that is bull. We need to say….look we are primarily a Christian nation…we were founded with Christian principles…this is the norm and it will be and if you don’t like it….too bad! 😛 😛 That will piss some people off…but I can’t help it…I think the PC BS is what has gotten us into this problem.
      As a teacher and you’ll appreciate this R2….it would be the equivalent of punishing the whole class for the crime of only a few students. Now this happens all the time….is this right?? You decide. Because that is where we are as a nation.

      • I was not generalizing but I can see how one would get that Idea. The problem here is that there is a group of individuals who want to make the word “God” disappear for good. Take for example the many times an atheist who’s last name is Newman, if memory serves right, he sued the Government because Bush mentioned his belief in God, He sued a school for the Pledge of allegiance on behalf of his daughter because of its use of the word “God”. He has admitted that he sued the school more for his sake than for his daughter who was not atheist (And who was only under the custody of her none atheist mother who was finalizing divorce and so on).

        There was major complaints from the same group that Foley is talking about when Obama defended the National day of prayer. These people don’t want to secure their own rights, they have an agenda in mind.


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