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The National ID Card remains a rather contentious debate.  Over the last couple of weeks I have been hearing, and debating this issue with people involving it and its proper role in our country.

Now for many people it is a stop-gap for illegal immigration, that it is to be used, and assigned for work.  That you can only work in this country if you are carrying this card, and thus a legal resident.  At least that is how it is supposed to work in theory.

But I doubt that is all that it will ever be used for, and that may not be its only mission.  Mission Creep will take effect and who knows what it might do in a couple of years. Take for instance the plain Social security card.  Now the new ones do not say this, but the older ones says on it ” Not for purposes of identification, or similar wording.”  In today’s world you almost have to use it for ID for any number of things.  Up until the age of identity theft in many states it was your driver’s License number.

Now the Conservative Proponents that I talked to about the bill, that is their objective.  But one of them was hesitant about the proposal when they found out that Chuck Schumer (D-NY) was one of its leading advocates of the current measure.

Now this brings up an issue that has become a mantra for me, especially of late.

Chuck Schumer is a Democrat, a liberal, and a big government type.  But the issue remains, if he abuses this power, and if the current government will abuse that power, is it appropriate that any government should have it?

To potentially know everything about its citizens including, maybe, eventually, where they are, what they are doing, party affiliation, DNA, etc.

I mean maybe I am wrong about this, but I do not trust mission creep.

But in a general sense, if you do not trust one party, or a current government to have a power, can you trust any of them?  That is the question that must be asked, and why I do not think there can be a National ID Card in this country.  It has been used before by men a lot more evil than this administration.

But the specific agenda that is ‘bad’ about this government getting this power is that it will not be used for employment, coupled with immigration reform, and complete  amnesty.  Then it will be handed out to them, and they will be issued them to work, just based on residency.

And then the real goal of this is…well I do not know their pure motivation, this is pretty much at the beginning of this process, so I only have speculation as to what it will be used for.

And apparently on Page 58 of the health care bill exists a National Health ID Card.  I have not seen hardcore evidence from it, just from news services, but if it does exist, then this is just part of the problem.

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15 Comments

  1. To have a national ID card for Identification gives us more problems than solutions. One card to fake. No longer would criminal elements require to fake 50 plus 1 ID’s and then Licenses. Just 1.

    Their use, if for employment, all that is needed is a national database of employee’s. The papers one normally uses plus a photo would be available to any employer. Not to mention the jobs that an employee already has under said information. It would be suspect if Joe came in for a 3-6 shift job and you look him up and find that not only does his picture not match, but he already has a 3-6 job on the other side of the state…

    If for Police….that’s a big NO. What would we need it for? One of the greatest things about this country is that I need no papers. That I can walk where ever or go where ever I want to go and not worry about the gestapo, sorry, the police asking me for “Papers.”

    No national ID’s, besides we already have one, it’s called a passport.

    • I agree but I think a National database might just be the same thing that is just as the National ID Card. I think there is a lot better solutions for employement.

  2. How so?

    • The government will still know who and what you are.

      • So this brings us to a paradox, a trade of. One that has existed for years.

        It’s Order, Law, Stability. Versus Freedom, Democracy, Personal Liberties and independence.

        What do we want?

        • colfoley
        • Posted March 26, 2010 at 12:08 am
        • Permalink

        Never ask that question :P.

        Freedom. I think though in this case there are ways for you to achieve to do something without actually doing that thing, you can secure the borders and get illegals out or minimised without govt control.

        • Cold Fuzz
        • Posted March 26, 2010 at 3:23 am
        • Permalink

        The entire argument idea of laws vs. freedom is flawed. We have freedoms because of laws that guarantee freedoms. And to boil this down to order vs. chaos is also flawed. There is a middle ground between the two. And those who insisted on the extremes of one or the other–the Vorlons and Shadows–got deservedly kicked out of the galaxy. We can and will find our middleground between order and chaos.

        Securing out national border falls under the jurisdiction of the government. To make the border solid, you need direct government intervention, plain and simple. Securing the border without the government is unrealistic.

        • colfoley
        • Posted March 26, 2010 at 5:07 am
        • Permalink

        No one is advocating pure ‘freedom’ versus pure government control. That middleground is exactly what we have been striving for and is the exact point that Aretoo has bought up, maybe in his blog ;).

        But the middle ground and the battle that we are fighting now is where this is going. This has been round since the dawn of human civilization. And its not going away, the battle between needs, wants, control and anarchy and freedom, liberty and liscence. And for each people out there the answer to these simple questions are different and varying from people to people, place to place, and even person to person. Though in the end the only bad thing is when some outside group tries and force their views of that freedom on them.

        • Cold Fuzz
        • Posted March 26, 2010 at 5:19 am
        • Permalink

        “It’s Order, Law, Stability. Versus Freedom, Democracy, Personal Liberties and independence.”

        R2 breaks it down into one side or the other in this sentence. You also sound as if you do too sometimes. You can’t have freedom, democracy, and independence without order, law, and stability. The notion that these ideas are all in opposition to each other is likewise flawed.

        P.S. I’m not to spend more time and energy reading more than one person’s blog. Reading and commenting on yours on top of the fanfic stuff already takes up a large chunk of time.

        • colfoley
        • Posted March 26, 2010 at 5:29 am
        • Permalink

        Sure but it is easy to get over balanced. And my perspective is always one of ultimate, or more ultimate freedom. I mean yeah I know that you need law and order and to have government to protect people who specifically violate the rights of other people, and overnments to protect from other governments. That is not what we are advocating here :P. But yes, in the end I am more inclined to at least consider ultimate freedom as opposed to not, especially in the nuts bolts proper definition of government. Protecting from other people and other rights.

        And I thank you :). And I know you are very busy 😛 I was merely pointing out that somewhere, did not know where, could have been a blog, that Aretoo bought up this very point.

  3. yup…….we can get rid of them…one way is by attrition thru enforcement….just enforce our laws….esp. as they pertain to people here illegally and they’ll go home on their own

  4. Yes I AM very busy. I should have been asleep 90 minutes ago because I have to get up at 4:30 again tomorrow morning. I’ll be blunt with you: You’re getting something out of this: Feedback. I’m NOT getting something out of this. If anything, I’m having to spend more time and energy just to write a response. Answer me this: What am I supposed to be getting out of all this?

    • I do not know, at all. Except for to engage the debate, maybe learn something, and maybe see another view, or use your noggin. The material benefits or practical though to you is minimal, and to me as well for that matter. You are under no obligation to comment to these, and especially to comment to my comments of your comments. I would REALLY like it to be done but I would hate it a lot more if you do it and sacrifice something for me that could lead you to not do as well on your job, or miss something, or just go over the top on something. You are under no obligation to me, and I really appreciate all EVERYONE has done here. Not so much that but actually having fun conversations, opening my mind, pissing me off, annoying the hell outta me, and giving me a better idea of where I am as a person and making me evuluate things on a constant basis almost.

      I was also going to point out in my last comment too that there is something that Beck says on this matter, that relates. Right now I am way more into buying the ultimate freedom jig because the govt is trying to take so many of our rights, so many of our liberties, and step on us that I am saying, what a second, so my overton window is on the other side of the spectrum to try and counteract, counter balance, and then get down to the very nuts and bolts of government so we as a people can figure out what the hell we really want! :P.

  5. Well IMO we are naive to think there are no “national databases” out there already about us. Hell marketing companies keep these records all the time. Google searches are monitored and saved in a data base for gosh sakes….cell phones are probably tapped for key words and such. So while part of me agrees the National ID card just makes it easier for the government and law enforcement to do their jobs and why should we make it easier on them to know more about us?? We would be more or less giving them permission to rank us and put us in some database. Which I am totally against. But then again I do want to see something done about illegal immigration. This is the problem. It is a true sticky point….a dichotomy that like healthcare is not easily solved. I do not have the magic bullet idea….but I really don’t think this is the answer either.

    • Its easier to be against something then to be for it ;). Human nature?


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