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Well I tried to get through most of the bill, but it just wound up being a bunch of  legalese, and started to repeat itself towards the end of it.

This issue is so important to where I believe this country is heading as a nation and as a people.  It really is the pinnacle issue of all that is going on, and it proves a prediction that I made on this very blog.  Arizona is the crossroads for this entire debate.

But to set this up, I think a video by ACORN CEO Bertha Lewis:

I will get to that later.

But first, my thoughts on the bill.

People have been saying that it is fascist, it is racists, it sets up racial profiling, that it is unfair to the illegals and Hispanics who help build this country despite the lazy white guy.

I have not found any of this to be true in the least, from my reading of the bill.

It does not mention fascism or socialism or extreme government control of their lives, nor does it mention that people can be dragged away from their homes and their cars on the mere suspicion that you are here illegally, or that you look ‘illegal’.

In fact what it does mention is that the state has to go to the Federal Government in order to ensure that someone is here illegally.

And if someone hires and illegal they will face extreme punishment.

One of the biggest complaints that I have read, and read this morning before I started this, is that citizens will now have to prove that they are here in the country legally, and they have to prove that they are here legally.

That this violates one of our most sacred principles, innocent until proven guilty.  And that just because you do not have an ID that is not sufficient evidence to prove that you are here illegally.

This is blatantly false.  The police, and local agencies, still have to go through the steps of whether or not you are here legally or not.  They might be able to take you in the mean time, but it is still an issue of the courts, and the federal government and their databases to prove your immigration status.

That you need some form of ID, but in case you do not have it that is not an automatic assumption of your guilt.  Whether you are Latin American or anything else.

Perhaps the biggest concern about the bill is racial profiling.  Also again a false concern to me for the most part.  Governor Jan Brewer has, since signing the law, signed an executive order making sure that the police know how not to racially profile, and has signed another bill too much the same effect.  To make it crystal clear that the original bill, which does not racial profile, does not racial profile.

But lets play along with the potential abuse of the law.

A good dear friend of mine claimed that if there is any potential abuse under this law then that makes the law bad, immoral, illegal and should not be done.

I sympathise with him, I am a libertarian, any government intrusion, coercion, and abuse is a very bad thing.

But let us run with it, potential abuse under the law.

In this country we have a Second Amendment that gives Citizens the right to Bear arms.  The right to defend themselves using firepower, guns, back in the day muskets.

Now this is a fundamental principle that can be open to buckets of abuse.

Someone who has a gun, takes it, is drunk, angry, or is just having a bad day can take it, and murder their spouse who they just had a fight with.

Whose at fault?  The fundamental principle or the guy who fired the weapon?

I put forth that it is the guy who fired the weapon.  The guy based on other fundamental principles of our government, will be jailed, punished, or executed for his heinous crimes.

Much the same with happen in this law.  If an individual exceeds his authority and profiles racially, in any way, he will be punished by this very law that says that is a no-no.

And if the law itself is Unconstitutional I will trust in the courts to deal with it.

There is also a huge amount of hypocrisy about the whole thing.

You need an ID to vote, to drive a car, to get employment, a house, to have an alcoholic beverage, to visit other countries, and to re-enter this country when you are done.

So why not to determine your status if you are here illegally?  To determine who you are and what your intentions may be?

Also back during the health care debate people said read the bill, read the bill, you should read the bill.  And yet, now, the people who do not read the bill say its going to be fascist.

We are being set up gang.

In the clip by Bertha Lewis she claims that the evil…..tea partiers in that specific case..are out to get you.

And it will surpass the era of McCarthy, that it will surpass the camps in WW II, and it will surpass Jim Crow.

Now anyone with any amount of logic will tell you that is crazy.  Only Governments can do those things to you.

But the clip reveals quite an important part of her psyche and the psyche of Big Government people.  Any growth of Government on the right is Fascist, that they are using the European model, the Progressive model.

That this will happen when and if the white and the tea party members and the right ever come into power again, that they will grow the Government and come after the Left Wing Socialists and Communists and everyone else who is different from them.

Enter in SB 1070.

A bill passed by a Republican, and thus maybe a Conservative…thus is the popular perception in Republicans versus Democrats.  A person that could be supported by the tea parties, again the perception, a white person.

A bill that is supposedly fascist and will allow for racial profiling.  A bill that will allow people to be rounded up in the streets for just looking illegal.

And then they will be put into the Concentration Camps of  local sheriffs.

This is what is being said about the bill.

And none of it is true.

Nevermind that the bill and the subsequent legislation outlaws racial profiling.  Never mind that we have the right to defend ourselves and our borders, never mind that we need ID to do almost everything else in our society.

A piece of our society that can be abused easily as I have bought up in the past, but I digress.

Nevermind that this bill is supported by upwards 60% of the American People, including a majority of African and Hispanic Americans.

Nevermind that most people, apparently, do not care if there is a theoretical civil rights violation under this bill.  committed by an individual will be in violation of several laws.

But none of that matters.  Its meant to set up a false premise.

Fascists on the Right, Socialists on the Left.  That you cannot go to the right, they are fascists, sure we may be enslaving you and creating massive government programs, but at least we will not kill you.  After all they will just do the same things we are doing, and besides they are a bunch of racists that will not accept you because you are different.

That it leaves those in the middle apathetic, unwilling  to engage, or go to the other side.

All this is meant to do is an attempt to rile up their base, not to mention bash, debase and vilify anyone not subscribing to the progressive socialist utopia.

And any opposition to this socialist nirvana must be squashed,  as one sign said at the May Day Rallies, by any means necessary.

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8 Comments

  1. Okay, first thing first
    “They might be able to take you in the mean time, but it is still an issue of the courts, and the federal government and their databases to prove your immigration status.”

    Taking you in the meantime is unconstitutional in and of itself. You can’t be detained unless you committed a crime…and that’s only if you get caught or are an immediate danger for others or if there’s a warrant. Not if you were unable to prove that you are American enough to not be “Reasonably Suspicious” of committing a Federal Civil offense. That is just blatantly unconstitutional. You need either probable cause or a warrant. Having Family out of the country or having an accent is not probable cause.

    The only Measure to insure that racial profiling does not happen is to let go any Illegal Immigrant that gets stopped without committing a visible crime or arrested without a warrant. That would work and if that provision does exist, then that would be one less reason to oppose the bill.

    Now the reason why Hispanics are up at arms is that this continues to show the Conservative Apathy towards Legal, that LEGAL, Hispanic Immigrants. The Forgotten Minority if you will. From day one they’re legality is questioned, there loyalty is questioned and they are submitted to a double standard.

    I talk about this double standard and the absence of the so called “Pro-Legal Immigrant” conservatives in my blog that I will link at the end of this comment.

    Why do I say, “So called?” Because I am still waiting for Conservatives to criticize the real racists, for the Conservative media to talk about the hundreds of Legal Immigrants and Hispanics that have been killed by trigger happy vigilantes and racist gangsters (KKK, Skin heads, and so on). This Law appears as just a silent permission by Apathetic conservatives to hate groups that says “Go kill them all.”

    Where is the Pro-Immigrant rhetoric? Where is Sheriff Joe when a Panama-American got beat up by white supremacists for being a “Illegal Mexican?” Where was the conservative outcry when Tom Savage called all Immigrants lazy? Where are they when there’s a Hispanic that needs to learn English? I don’t see them anywhere, do you?

    It seems that Liberals are the only ones, and that’s the problem.
    http://aretood2.wordpress.com/2010/05/10/personal-entry-double-standards-and-perceived-hate-where-does-it-come-from/

    • Wow.
      First of all, with our legal system, if what you say is true…again a simple traffic stop would be illegal. the Cops would not be able to act on getting someone because they just cannot have a warrant when they are chasing something down. Our entire state justice system would be thrown out the window. Because the Law dictates that you can only ask someone if they are here illegally if they commit a crime in the first place…in the course of the investigation. That is how it has been explained, and that is how I have interpreted it.

      Secondly, that is not the way to go, you just cannot release everyone. Though you are right, all someone has to do is have the first legal immigrant get pulled over, and ‘hassled’ over this issue and that will open up all sorts of legal debates. The only way to head that off is to make it part of normal police procedure. white, mexican, German, chinese, Papers Please?:P. What no ticket?:P. That is the only way to solve this to every ones satisfaction. because it is better to be inconvenienced, then to be dead, or to let a much greater injustice go on.

      And Conservatives have been speaking out.

      • Okay let me repeat, I said unless you are caught…speeding is a crime and they pull you over when you are caught red handed so to speak. Now second part of your first paragraph, what’s to stop a cop from stopping you for a bogus traffic violation because they decided to take a chance that you are illegally here? I know, by knowing that even if you are illegally here, since they stopped you without you committing a crime they wont be able to have you arrested for being here illegally, so they wont profile you to begin with.

        Second paragraph, Like I said, only if there was no visible crime committed, like speeding. If the stop was without reason, then the police can’t legally detain you based on your legality. It’s like doing a warrantless search. If the cops just barge into your house and find a murder weapon to an open case, they can’t arrest you even though you are guilty because they got that gun illegals.

        They have? Can you provide links to video clips, articles, discussions?

        Libertarian links don’t count by the way.

        • colfoley
        • Posted May 14, 2010 at 1:54 am
        • Permalink

        Good points. … but they are not making sense to me. And if a cop stops you and you have not commited a crime…whats to stop a cop from doing that? The Law….the very law that is under debate, and the law in general, if the cop does that he is…one a moron. And two he is commiting an illegal action.

        Well that rules out Glenn Beck. :P. I am not really up on where most Conservative Commentators fit on this. Although…I mean really can you prove that they have not been doing this? can you prove that they are not for legal immigration?

  2. Speeding is a crime, thus you can be stopped for that. And then the questions.See what I mean? If a cop catches you in the act, then he is the warrant, but if he’s not there to see it he needs a warrant.

    Evidence found with out a warrant (Of either kind) is inadmissible in court. Same should apply here. If he found out you are an illegal through illegal means, then that should not be held against you.

    And see? If someone as politically active as you doesn’t know then what of the average Latino? But I am sure you can find me liberal links in a second…that’s the problem.

    • Oh. I do see your point. But this law does give cops that power to do this as part of their investigation. and that is a very resonable complaint against the new law, I applaud you ;).

      Hmmm…I am sure I can’t :P.

  3. Well I look at the whole thing like the seat belt law…that a cop if he notices that you are not wearing a seatbelt even tho that would be a crime in of itself…he cannot pull you over for that alone. You must have committed a crime first to be pulled over and then in his investigation if you are without a seat belt then he can cite you for that. Same thing applies here. If an illegal or legal citizen for that matter is pulled over for a crime…speeding, wreckless operation what have you….and you cannot produce adequate documentation that you are a legal citizen…..and have a legal and valid driver’s license then you need to be detained for further investigation period. I mean if I were pulled over for speeding and didn’t have my license with me… and they ran my social through LEADS and there was NO RECORD Of me….then I would be questioned and detained no doubt on who I was and what I was doing?? Plus then….I would be given time to produce my license and I think this is fair and how this new law should work. But if the person cannot adequately prove they are here with valid papers/ID etc…then the cops should have some recourse and empowerment to deal with them…not simply let them go. Because that gives illegals the right to a. break the law and get away with it….(because in the current system the police cannot issue a ticket to someone they cannot find in the system so they have no option but to just let them go) and b. it does nothing to encourage citizens… legal or not to have their papers in order and to take this their matter of citizenship seriously. I think because in the past nothing has happened to them because the police have no empowerment to deal with the issue…this is why there is no deterrent for them to stop coming here illegally because they seemingly can get away with it reasonably unscathed and so why not risk it? Well this mindset has got to stop and it has to be the first step in ensuring that steps will and can be taken to question and deal with a person’s citizenship period.

    I realize this is a sensitive issue especially with the propensity to abuse the law and use it as racial profiling but really doesn’t every law have the ability to be abused? So you can’t throw the baby out with the bath water just on fear it will be abused. You have to give it a chance to be enforced legally and if and when it is abused deal with that on a case by case basis and if the law needs to be ratified then so be it that can happen at a later date.

    • I agree with your second paragraph completely.

      And really with the whole thing ;). And thanks for the information. Because I am not sure how much I really know on this and I appreciate both of you taking time out and explaining your view points.


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